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Turning over the bed

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1Turning over the bed  Empty Turning over the bed on Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:31 am

kesubos 62: rabbi yanai said to turn over his bed -yehudas. (Look in rashi) The question is clear, why didn't he tell them to turn over her bed since she was an availa or turn of their beds since they were availim.

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2Turning over the bed  Empty Re: Turning over the bed on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:12 am

Great question. But what did you mean when you quoted Rashi? - How can you tell that it was Yehudah's bed that needed to be turned over? Rashi says המתאבלים, those who mourn.
I truly don't know who R' Yanai meant if it wasn't Yehudah, though, since he clearly wasn't referring to his daughter. I'm wondering if he meant his own bed, in the common way that people in the gemara refer to themselves in the third person. If he did, it couldn't be an act of mourning for a talmid chacham; one tears kriah for a talmid chacham, but I don't think one observes other mourning like inverting the bed. It could be a case of כל שמתאבל עליו מתאבל עמו (Moed Katan 20b): one mourns along with a close relative [like his daughter] in the relative's presence. Seems like a stretch, though; I don't think the rule would apply when the relative herself is not mourning yet, and as you pointed out he doesn't seem to have asked his daughter to turn her bed over.
I'm waiting to hear a better answer.

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3Turning over the bed  Empty Re: Turning over the bed on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:18 am

Hmm - I'm wondering if, as Rashi says, he came home for Shabbos because, הוא ליל תענוג ושביתה והנאת הגוף, it was a time of physical pleasure - maybe he wouldn't come home when his wife was a nidah and they couldn't be close? If that was true, then they only needed one bed, and his bed is also her bed, and R' Yanai would be telling his daughter to mourn.

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4Turning over the bed  Empty Re: Turning over the bed on Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:22 pm

עיין היכל יצחק אה״ע ח״ב סימן א׳ these are mareh mekomos that I found in tho topic.
ועיין קהלת שלמה על עין יעקב מש״כ על הגליון מהרי״ף
ועיין מאור עינים שהכוונה על ר׳ חייא א״נ על שאר המתאבלים ע״ש
עיין נטעי גבריאל(אבילות) פרק קט מה שהביא מספר מעבר יבק ודו״ק ועיין בית מועד (קורח) לה ז
שו״ת שם ישראל יו״ד סימן כט
ועיין קובץ שערי תורה (וורשא) ח״ג קונטרס יב סימן סח אות יג.

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