The gemara describes three time ranges for when she finds the blood, in terms of the tum'ah of boel nidah. The first is אויתיום, immediately - they are tamei vadai. The second is אחר, which Rashi gives as the time כדי שתרד מן המטה ותדיח את פניה של מטה
from the gemara in Nidah 14a - they are tamei בספק. After that (אחר אחר) the man is only tamei according to Rabbi Akiva, and only as a gezeirah.
The Ritva says explicitly that the first two are מה"ת, in the first case (immediate) he brings a חטאת, and in the second case (אחר) he brings an אשם תלוי.
I find it all hard to understand. We are presumably referring to a case when she is not בשעת ווסתה: as the gemara says, we are not dealing with רשעים. So there is no chazaka that she will see, and presumably we know she was tehorah before. So we contrast that with the fact that she is known to be a niddah later, and I guess the earlier chazakah wins; we say tahorah till the latest possible time (except for a gezeirah אליבא דר"ע).
But what is this middle case? Where does that time come from; how does it change the situation into a ספק מה"ת? Is it based on some kind of סברא described by the name (כדי שתרד etc.) or is that just a way for Chazal to identify a certain time period?
I guess I should go learn Nidah, but can someone help explain this?
from the gemara in Nidah 14a - they are tamei בספק. After that (אחר אחר) the man is only tamei according to Rabbi Akiva, and only as a gezeirah.
The Ritva says explicitly that the first two are מה"ת, in the first case (immediate) he brings a חטאת, and in the second case (אחר) he brings an אשם תלוי.
I find it all hard to understand. We are presumably referring to a case when she is not בשעת ווסתה: as the gemara says, we are not dealing with רשעים. So there is no chazaka that she will see, and presumably we know she was tehorah before. So we contrast that with the fact that she is known to be a niddah later, and I guess the earlier chazakah wins; we say tahorah till the latest possible time (except for a gezeirah אליבא דר"ע).
But what is this middle case? Where does that time come from; how does it change the situation into a ספק מה"ת? Is it based on some kind of סברא described by the name (כדי שתרד etc.) or is that just a way for Chazal to identify a certain time period?
I guess I should go learn Nidah, but can someone help explain this?