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Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro

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1 Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro on Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:32 pm

The Aron is compared to a Talmid Chachom, as both are Tocho Kebaro, the same inside as outside. The Aron is gold, inside and out. The Talmid Chachom practices what he preaches, so his behavior is consistent with who he really is.

A question that occurred to me is that the Aron has a middle layer of wood between the gold layers, that are inside and outside. This seems, at first, to possibly weaken the Gemara's claim that the Aron is made up of the same material, inside and out, in other words through and through.

A possible consideration, that may reconcile this seeming inconsistency, is that the wood layer needs to be there, because if you don't have a middle layer, there is no boundary, no interface, which is what defines inside and outside.

It seems to me that it is the same story with a talmid chachom. A talmid chachom has free choice, and we know, a tzaddik falls seven times (or more)and gets back up, each time he ascends from one level to the next, and his evil inclination grows with him. This is part of the refining process, over a lifetime, that brings a talmid chachom closer and closer to his goal of perfecting this aspect of his character, known as Tocho Kebaro, the same inside as outside.

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2 Re: Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro on Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:32 pm

Interesting idea! I wonder if something R' Ezra Neuberger shlit"a told me might be relevant. He once said that what we call the yetzer hatov is a kli that Hashem gave us for dealing with ruchnius, and the yetzer hara is the kli that Hashem gave us for dealing with gashmius. And then there's the person, the entity with the bechira, who chooses how to handle them. (Till here is R' Ezra's principle. From here on is my imagination on applying it.)

So then the wood in the middle would be the "person", כי האדם עץ השדה - a man is like a tree. The gold on the inside and the outside would be the ideal for how the man interacts with his two "interfaces", the inside and the outside.
It would be a very interesting suggestion for what תוכו כברו means. Sounds different from the usual understanding.
It definitely could use more work, I think.

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3 Tocho Kebaro - Yoma 72 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:36 pm

Very nice MichoelR!- your vort and the one from Rav Ezra, shlita

By the way, Mazel Tov on the completion of Maseches Yoma by the Daf Yomi.

Like you said, this can always be developed further.

After reviewing your torah, I had an another insight:

The wood interface of the Aron could also be an intimation to the Tree of Life, the Torah.

On the inside of this interface is the real gold, the pursuit of perfection in yiras hashem and midos development. The Ramchal, in Mesilas Yesharim, says that if you search for these as one searches for gold, then you will find them. He explains that the weight of gold is measured with very fine instruments, in striving to obtain the purest gold possible, with the least impurities. This represents the idea that we are not expected to complete the work. Our responsibility is to take it as far as we can.

On the outside of this interface is the potentially fake gold, the pursuit of the golden glitter and glamor of materialism in this world, if we fail to dedicate these to a higher purpose, as described just above. This was the case with the golden calf of the parshah coming up shortly.

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4 Re: Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:17 am

Yaasher kochacha, also very interesting. I'd also add that someone told me from the Vilna Gaon, maybe in a different direction. He says that the gold on the outside represents the revealed Torah, and the gold on the inside is the hidden Torah. We can (potentially) grasp the revealed Torah down to its innermost part, but we can only just touch the outermost part of the hidden Torah.

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5 Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro on Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:18 am

Very good...Yeyasher Kochachoh!


In support of the torah you just mentioned, you got me thinking as follows:

We know it says in the torah: 'The hidden things are for Hashem, and the revealed things are for us, for our future generations forever'.  

Actually, if not for the torah you quoted, I might think that, based on this last quote I referred to just above, the hidden torah could be altogether inaccessible to us. So the torah you mentioned adds this significant wrinkle, that specifically tells us that we can still relate somewhat, even if only on a relatively superficial level, to the mysteries of the hidden torah.

So, to recap, it seems that, basically, the bottom line regarding this latest point you have raised, is that the hidden torah is really ultimately inaccessible to us, in its essence (at least in this world), but we can still get a 'taste' of it (even down here), so to speak.



Last edited by MosheG on Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:12 am; edited 2 times in total

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6 Re: Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro on Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:41 am

That's a fascinating use of that posuk.

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7 Yoma 72 - Toch Kebaro on Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:22 am

I share the credit with you! You planted the seed.


I would also like to take this opportunity to commend you, and your son, on creating and maintaining this great Torah web site, to beautify and glorify the Torah!

In this merit, may you both merit, along with the rest of your family, many healthy, wealthy, fulfilling, contented, and happy years (all of these in a Torah way)

until 120, by which time, hopefully, Moshiach will come (if he doesn't come sooner)!

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8 Re: Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro on Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:35 am

Thank you. וכן למר

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9 Yoma 72 - Tocho Kebaro on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:42 pm

You're welcome, and thank you for reciprocating.

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